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Use more colourblind friendly UI!

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    • Use more colourblind friendly UI!

      The colours in RN are not helping me. I am colourblind. This does NOT mean I don't see colours, but I have trouble recognizing colours that are close to eachother in the spectrum. Most colourblind people would benefit if you would choose colours that are more apart from eachother.

      Like this
      Green = online now; use a darker green!
      Yellow = Online within the last 3 days; use really bright yellow
      Orange = Not online within the last 3 days; use blue
      Red= Not online within the last 7 days; use black

      doesnt have to be this way, but just use colours that stand out more! Or use symbols, patterns, etc. Just look here: How to Design for Color Blindness

      Hope you will do something about this.
    • Just to be clear on this Jay... you do mean having such a colour scheme as a switchable option available with one click?

      I would add that as teh Assoc flags are also hard for Colourbliind people perhaps having those alter with a new scheme too. Avoiding some of teh symbols vanishing. This coulfd be a particular problme when a group of team share very similar Flags, where the varied part actually vanishes to those with colour issues.
    • mmmcheesywaffles wrote:

      Just to be clear on this Jay... you do mean having such a colour scheme as a switchable option available with one click?

      I would add that as teh Assoc flags are also hard for Colourbliind people perhaps having those alter with a new scheme too. Avoiding some of teh symbols vanishing. This coulfd be a particular problme when a group of team share very similar Flags, where the varied part actually vanishes to those with colour issues.
      That would be a solution, but a complete new CSS would do fine. And yes, the flags sometimes do appear the same. But the link I've posted says it all
    • Thank you Jay. This is something I try to bring up in the German forum since the User Interface was changed.
      They told me, they are proud to have found color schemes that fit so nicely, but did not react to use color contrast according to the W3C suggestions to make the game accessible for handicapped people.
      The other negative point on this is the use of transparency, which adds to the difficulties to get the information, if you are color blind.

      In fact, when I showed them some examples, they started to increase contrasts (like in the research screen) but as they obviously use different CSS or program functions in each single part of the game, this did not change the situation in other parts of the game. The are still working on it, but as I see it, they are still more interested in the harmony of colors than it making the game easily accessible for handicapped people.

      I also told them to use many of the contrast checkers, available all over the internet. They just tell how well color blind people of the three types of blindness can get information, when using those two colors. But I got no feedback on that.

      So I am glad you bring it up here too.

      There are more ideas, switchable schemes for the GUI is one, user defined colors (at least) for the chat is another one. All not toooo difficult for a good team, and very often done all over the internet. We will see, if the changes that will come up, at least get close to the W3C standards.
      Ob Forum oder RL: jemanden anprangern, macht nur öffentlich Spaß. Loben hingegen passiert per PN.
      Auge in Auge zu seiner Anprangerei stehen, das braucht anscheinend Mut, viel Mut. Und keine Angst vor der Antwort.
      Die gute Nachricht: auch in diesem Forum überwiegen die lobenden PNs die öffentichen Meckereien.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Klabbauter ().

    • @'Klabbauter

      You have explained some of the issues Devs face when making colour choices. I think a big part of teh problme is the lack of understanding many Devs have about the difficulties their customers face. The young designers and stylists with often good taste in colour balance can't really understand how hard it is. Or even think its only a handful of people .

      However, games such as RN are often taken up by a far higher percentage of people with disabilites for several reasons.

      1] We have teh time to play the games

      2] We tend to get more involved socially within the games

      3] The game can be played well without urgent actions. So using a UI that is hard to see can still be an option where some games would just be impossible to play.

      4) There is no other place for some handicapped or sick people to tet in touch with others than the internet, and the internat games and chats. [this line edited in from Klabbatuers post below for those who may tire after reading a lot ]

      In my own case I have resolution difficulty due to fluctuating Blood Pressure but excellant perception of colours. I recommended a switch above as often that is the easiest way to satisfy the majority with no colour issues, but also cater well for those who do.

      High contrast options can be usefull for full sighted players too. In strong sunlight tablets and phones can be very difficult to use. So having an option ot increase contrast or to switch to a high contrast UI can be useful.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by mmmcheesywaffles: Klabbauter made a very important point 4] So Ihave cheekily taken teh liberty of adding it to my post as some people using Readers' may tire at too many posts and that point is VERY important ().

    • Oh, mmmcheesy waffles, you tell all the reasons, why I was writing my posts.

      When I develop games (for virtual worlds) I get into touch with the players, I want to get to know them (same when I write business software).
      Cause, only when a developer or stylists gets in contact with their customers,with the players, they get to know them, and get to know their needs.

      It is hard to tell it, but handicapped people or people with deseases have no other place to meet people than the internet.
      I would add to your numbers:
      4) There is no other place for some handicapped or sick people to tet in touch with others than the internet, and the internat games and chats.

      The internet is full of friendly people, who appear to be happy, but if you do more than just play or chat with them, you might find out about their life.

      - people being in pain for just clicking and writing. They write anyway, they just do not correct typos, they need some time to type a line, but they really want it ... they take the pain to be part of a community
      - people lying in bed, getting oxygen and waiting for their heart transplantation ...
      - people who are so sick or handicapped that they cannot move outside their room, they have nothing but the internet

      The internet it the chance for hadicapped, disabled and sick people to get in contact with other people,

      It starts with color blindness or hearing impairment. You can still pe part of the RL community, but other people often react strange, when the other can's see correctly or can't understand the speaker. Developers should be aware of the fact, that the internet is the place where all these people can get in contact with others, too often the only place.

      I saw the big ratio of disabled people in virtual worlds, because as a developer I talked to the players.
      And I leaned I can make them happy by testing color contrasts not only for harmony, but for visibility too. I leaned to reduce clicks and mouse movements, when I imagined, how much pain they can cause. I thought better about sounds, when I realized how disabled people hear the world.

      Game developers do a great job to bring handicapped people in contact with others. I know, the handicapped ones are the most friendly, most helpful ones. They almost never rant or complain ... but a developer should know, how much joy he could bring back into their lives, when he thinks about them, avoiding all the barriers that hurt them or makes it difficult to play and chat.

      And it starts with color contrasts. And visibility of buttons. And reducing mouse movements .... that is the easy part, there are tools that help developers. Free tools, good tools ... but Jay is right, they were not used for the new GUI, where they use transparency and harmony of colors to make parts of the game almost invisible to handicapped people.
      Ob Forum oder RL: jemanden anprangern, macht nur öffentlich Spaß. Loben hingegen passiert per PN.
      Auge in Auge zu seiner Anprangerei stehen, das braucht anscheinend Mut, viel Mut. Und keine Angst vor der Antwort.
      Die gute Nachricht: auch in diesem Forum überwiegen die lobenden PNs die öffentichen Meckereien.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Klabbauter ().

    • I just absolutely have to join this conversation! One more colour blind here o/

      It's not the worst limitation in life, but it makes you feel respected when, for example reds and greens are also following a certain shape language and laws. 2 separate colour schemes is one great option that players can turn on / off.

      If at all possible, I would like to gather all the situations in the game where colours can send mixed signals. With screen captures, even better.

      Also, I'd be happy to hear of any other visual improvements that could be considered when it comes to other limitations. This sort of feedback is really valuable, with clear explanations and examples.
    • Thank you Samisu,
      let me start with one example, which is clearly readable for me (slightliy red blind), and which was changed by the devs about 1-2 months ago.
      It is about the not yet researched machines in the research screen.
      It used much more transparency before, and it was definitely not readable from some distance.
      I used a contrast checker to show you the results as they are now The part of the UI checked I put in to he upper right:



      As you can see, the information (blue on blue, 140km/h) as it appears now, after they "fixed" the bug, still is not acceptable.
      The results are fails even with bold fonts for color blind people class AA and AAA and it is judged a fail to the W3C standards too.

      This first example shows, not handicapped people will laugh at it and tell you "It's clearly readable"
      However the contrast checker tells AA and AAA handicapped people will not see it.

      I will continue with more checks during the next days.
      Ob Forum oder RL: jemanden anprangern, macht nur öffentlich Spaß. Loben hingegen passiert per PN.
      Auge in Auge zu seiner Anprangerei stehen, das braucht anscheinend Mut, viel Mut. Und keine Angst vor der Antwort.
      Die gute Nachricht: auch in diesem Forum überwiegen die lobenden PNs die öffentichen Meckereien.
    • Here is another example, the nations chat:



      This is the chat I can only read, when I get really close to the screen.

      The color contrast checker tells us handicapped people class AA or AAA cannot read it, the contrast does not go with the W3C suggestions.
      Only AA people could read the chat ... if it were in 18 pt font ... but it isn't.

      And this is an example where color changes would be very simple to prog, even if users could set them.
      Ob Forum oder RL: jemanden anprangern, macht nur öffentlich Spaß. Loben hingegen passiert per PN.
      Auge in Auge zu seiner Anprangerei stehen, das braucht anscheinend Mut, viel Mut. Und keine Angst vor der Antwort.
      Die gute Nachricht: auch in diesem Forum überwiegen die lobenden PNs die öffentichen Meckereien.
    • @Klabbauter

      I took the liberty of adding in your point 4] to my list :P

      I don't know how many players will be using Readers to enhance text or whatever, but I do know many people get tired reading teh threads and do so a bit at a time.

      So now they know your next post is worth reading too :)

      Many years ago when I dsicovered one of my most active helpers in a Moderation team was a lady with very little sight. She sent me a photo of her system and it was fascinating. She lay in a reclining chair with three screens. One normal set to high contrast and one a magnifyer, teh other was a Reader that converted text to voice when she selected by mouse. Unless I had seen teh picture I would have had no idea she needed such support. No wonder she tired so easily. She thanked me for including her in my team, I was humbled!

      RN is perhaps one of teh most adapatable games for those with disabilities. We don't really need sound, we don't really need high res and transparencies but they all add to the experience for those capable of enjoying them. By using option switches, possibly even built into the installers, we might see RN as one of the most accessible games. Certainly it taxes the different intellects. The optional styles of play allow those who want to vent their frustrations in an environment where they can play rogue... and maybe one day make freinds :) or those who enjoy playing as part of a team. Yet offers those who can't lead a team in RL the chance to show their organisational skills and lead a crowd of other players to victory.
    • As you already noticed we did a lot of changes concerning this issue.
      If you still have problems please help me to figure them out exactly.

      So to all of you who are colourblind can you please answer some
      short questions to me?

      #1 Do you know which kind of color blindness you have?
      #2 Can you name up to three examples in the game which cause the biggest problems for you?
      Do you have a suggestion for a good improvement (e.g. reference colors from the web, add an icon) ?
      #3 Can you name/show/ link up to three examples in games/ web/ software where a similar issue is solved better?
    • Perhpas teh process could be speeded up by having a few interested players group together. ie players with each of teh colour blindness types and players with other sight issues.?

      Jay .. you have the organisational skills to task people to find particular types of problem. Perhaps I could help you by keeping a list of players with particular issues. Anyone wanting privacy could contact Samisu direct?

      Language may be a probem so keeping a list of players who can help make sure the Devs get a comprehensive easily understood list might help too. I'm assuming Samisu is too busy already to commit the time it may need.
    • Hi, I just came across a strange example.

      OK, the title says "colourblind" which means, players cannot see any colour informaion at all. More often players have weaknesses on red, blue or yellow. And I suggest to include them into the discussion.

      I am slightly weak on red. Not very much (I still got all licences to sail ships) but I know about it, and I know it means that I am weak on distinguishing variations of green from each other. Strange how it works, but it goes that way (for me).

      So, I just watched a city growing:



      The fourth good just changed from yellow to green, and for 1-2 seconds I saw that dark green as red, I more saw the darkness than the colour, because you picked a dark green here, not that bright green as on the button down below.

      So, for 2 seconds I thought, the city had taken from the goods and the levelling failed. Just when the green become green for me, I calmed down.

      See, any dev would tell, that green is clearly visible, but if you are concentrated, if you focus on a situation, wait for a change, the first impression of the change might be the wrong one if you are weak or blind on colours.

      This is a strange example, but it tells: the darker colours you use, the less you trigger the senses of the player, the more often he will fail to get the correct information immediately.
      Ob Forum oder RL: jemanden anprangern, macht nur öffentlich Spaß. Loben hingegen passiert per PN.
      Auge in Auge zu seiner Anprangerei stehen, das braucht anscheinend Mut, viel Mut. Und keine Angst vor der Antwort.
      Die gute Nachricht: auch in diesem Forum überwiegen die lobenden PNs die öffentichen Meckereien.
    • Thank you Klabbauter!

      It would be good to have some more examples to get a bigger picture. Also from the other participants.
      I am also interested in positive examples from other games or websites.

      Jay wrote: "Green = online now; use a darker green!"
      Klabbauter wrote: "the darker colours you use, the less you trigger the senses of the player"

      It's very difficult to find a solution which fits to everyone. And maybe we should think a bit out of the box here.
      e.g. Does it make sense to add an icon (e.g. checkmark) to the bar? Is the bar the best visualization? Do we need a real colorblind mode which needs to be enabled in the options and changes the colors.
    • JimBahn wrote:

      It would be good to have some more examples to get a bigger picture. Also from the other participants.
      I am also interested in positive examples from other games or websites.
      Well, the very first post of Jay links to a website that gives a lot of information.

      I only play 2 online games, RN and Siedler (settlers) so I cannot give many examples. Siedler is easier for me to get the information, with the exception of some of their chats, where they use very dark pink or dark grey on dark brown background. What they do is to offer a button that changes ALL chatd to white on dark brown ... that's the button I click first after relog (if only they would allow to store the setting).

      JimBahn wrote:

      Jay wrote: "Green = online now; use a darker green!"
      Klabbauter wrote: "the darker colours you use, the less you trigger the senses of the player"
      You miss the context here.
      Jay talked about the situation where there is a static color information on a background, which for some is difficult to distinguish. You just show a dot here, for online, recently online and inactive. I also have to look twice sometimes here.
      The cnallenge here is to find a combination here, that at the samt time shows good contrasts between the three colours and also to the background.
      I would suggest, not only to use a one colour dot here, but do add a pattern into the 3, an icon or a letter.

      In my example it is a bout the contrast of a colour change, the medium bright yellow changes to either red or green, both definitely darker.
      As I am weak on red, over the decades of life my brain has leanrd to autmatically add some red on quick changes ... that is, why that dark green in the very first moment appeared to me to be red.
      In the green button below you use a colour gradient, maybe that is a good idea for the bars too.

      JimBahn wrote:

      It's very difficult to find a solution which fits to everyone. And maybe we should think a bit out of the box here.
      e.g. Does it make sense to add an icon (e.g. checkmark) to the bar? Is the bar the best visualization? Do we need a real colorblind mode which needs to be enabled in the options and changes the colors.
      First again, we have to think about real colour blindness. It's rare, but there ARE people, who only see a grey scale. Those people see the bar in my example just as a dark grey and have to evaluate the length (or the numbers given) to get the information.

      Most people are "only" weak on one of the three basic colours. All of those see colour contrasts differently, you can check the very first link given by Jay to get an idea. Those three types of handicaps will always differ in their evaluations of colour information.

      I like the idea of the Siedler (settlers) to offer a button for max contrast for all their chats.



      Let me add something, that I noticed lately. Look at the yellow bars in my example. I cannot exactly see, how far the yellow goes to the right, because first it's medium yellow on medium grey here, and second, the numbers are hiding much of the bar.
      The big advantage of visualisation (using the bars) is to give the main information (how near are we to green) QUICK, without checking the numbers spread on the window and do some calculation. Visualisation needs the bar to be easily seen, hiding them under numbers and by low contrast (med yellow on med grey) is not the best idea here.
      Thicker bars would help, light grey on the right side to contrast to the yellow would help too.

      I know, it's tricky. Best is to ask some colleagues that confess their weaknesses on colours and ask them, or to use one of the websites that allow you to see your design like a colour blind person or a colour weak person would see it.
      Ob Forum oder RL: jemanden anprangern, macht nur öffentlich Spaß. Loben hingegen passiert per PN.
      Auge in Auge zu seiner Anprangerei stehen, das braucht anscheinend Mut, viel Mut. Und keine Angst vor der Antwort.
      Die gute Nachricht: auch in diesem Forum überwiegen die lobenden PNs die öffentichen Meckereien.
    • Hi,


      I am still working on this issue and would like to collect some feedback from you.


      After some research work I would like to hear your opinion about the following ideas:

      Please let me know your thoughts.


      #1 We offer an optional(!) secondary color palette. This would affect e.g. colored bars or the colored

      dots in the game.

      #2 We offer an optional(!) mode which increases the overall font and control size by 140%.


      #3 We offer a toggle button in the chat which toggles all colors optional to white.


      #4 We create a new set of online icons which use also shapes and the color red is replaced by grey.

      (the image ist only an example from the web and does not cover all our use cases)


      #5 We look into all blue link buttons and change them to real buttons if these is no reason against that idea.

      At least Link-buttons should always be underlined.


      #6 We continue to eliminate transparent texts.
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