Equalize association opportunity

  • Hello
    Right now there is a system with "pre-registrating" where it's possible for already strong associations to stay ahead of any new competitions by entering the next game with already up to 25 slots open. Needless to say even if 25 other players started the same world and wanted to play together in a corp, they would be at a massive disadvantage.


    The only way to catch up is to plow in millions into the HQ, over many sessions of waiting for the rest of the association to do the same.
    This lack of mobility and assembly obviously hinders free and open competition., in all scenarios.


    An biproduct of the size of HQ right now is the ability to hire workers, but maybe this could be dependent on how many members an association actually has rather than how many player slots (HQ LVL) it has.


    Quite frankly there is also the question; what good does the current association limits contribute to the game?
    If it's a credit balancing issue, why not just make all engines 5-10% more expensive or something?


    So my proposals are;
    * Remove HQ "lvl" and its donation stages
    * Make all associations have 25 slots from the beginning.
    * Change the system for how many workers an association can have to be dependent on members or something else (leaving this one open, there are many good solutions)
    * Keep pre-registration, but don't make number of slots dependent on how many registers.

    Now excuse me, I've got a train line to run!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Locomotius Prime ().

  • i thought i explained this in game, now i see it here as well. you have 3 months to build a team, To get to know those players and work out how to win, after 3 months we have endgame and pre registration, if you have invested your time correctly, made friends with those players, then at start of next round they will be there with you along with a fully upgraded hq. playing the game is only 2/3 rd of it, the other 1/3rd is social networking. We have all seen a new player invest in an industry at the wrong time with silly high amounts, your idea would allow 25 of them to join up and cause havoc with the game of more serious players/assocs. :)

  • Pre-registration can be an advantage or, as I have seen recently, it can be a disadvantage bringing unresolved issues from one round to the next where they implode.


    The more rounds you play the more resources you have … gold is carried over, your career engine improves, and you 'know' more people …


    and players who can't plough real money into the game can therefore play the long game and stand a chance at getting into the end game and even winning.


    That seems perfectly fair to me - you can put the finance into the game or you can put the time and energy into the game and it will reward you. Both kinds of players are needed.


    PS - that long process of getting a good team together and getting into the end game is fun - it is much harder work defending your position in the next round once you've got there

    The post was edited 4 times, last by mgc49: added PS ().

  • I think you are mistaken about the balancing of preregistration. Even if a current association is 25 members when it preregisters, it doesn't automatically get 25 slots. It gets just enough to allow its preregistered members. so if 12 out of 25 members preregister it will start at level 7. 14 members, requiring 1,000,000 from 9 players to upgrade. Yes they will get vouchers from the tutorial, which could potentially bring them to level 8 requiring 10 donations of 1,750,000..... but how many players do you know that can have a bank big enough AND afford to donate this kind of cash in the first week or so of the game? They can't! This is the balance. It rewards players for sticking together and creating long term groups that play round after round together, while still allowing players who are new, or wanted to change associations chance to catch up. Also by starting the preregistered association one level up, that gives them 2 spots plus the newbie slot to accept in and mentor new players that spawned in their chosen start city. Thus now quickly introducing new players into seasoned groups that can help them learn the game and start having fun sooner.

  • I am a member of a big association, the 20th we will start our association 4th server.
    I agree with Nerisrath and would add some players stop the game or leave the association because they don't get along anymore, so there are often 3-4 places to open for new members, which you try to integrate asap, on a time where you need all your money.


    I understand you Locomotius Prime, but assiociations are all made by individual players. You met people and decide to play together, so next round you will start with a small group which will grow up by time.


    There is also preinscription limits, you can't start with 5 associations with around 20 players each on the very same area. Atm only 4 assiociations (so around 80 players) can do that, leaving a city with nobody there. It also mean that you can't always go where you whant with who you whant because an other association rserved a city.

    Bad Wolf - s201 - Tour Eiffel

  • i thought i explained this in game, now i see it here as well. you have 3 months to build a team, To get to know those players and work out how to win, after 3 months we have endgame and pre registration, if you have invested your time correctly, made friends with those players, then at start of next round they will be there with you along with a fully upgraded hq. playing the game is only 2/3 rd of it, the other 1/3rd is social networking. We have all seen a new player invest in an industry at the wrong time with silly high amounts, your idea would allow 25 of them to join up and cause havoc with the game of more serious players/assocs. :)

    Here is the thing, a pre-registered association at any level above level 1, is advantaged for playing the previous round together, this means associations hang on to players they would otherwise kick, and players stay in associations they would otherwise leave. It creates in immobile community with static teams over several gamerounds.


    While a fresh-association might take 6 eras to plow hundreds of millions of credits into upgrading their HQ, and all that time NOT getting prestige from the players who join late during all the time up until that point, means they get double-robbed of opportunity to rank up their association.


    We've both been in 25-member associations. We both know a top 5 association can both be great and another top 5 association can be crap. If all associations start with full slots, it makes it easier to dump the crap behind, start up a new asso and move on to better things in a matter of a day rather than a month.


    You would still have all those advantages, you would just have more additional choices as both player and association. If a player without +acc joins a server and the associations have 25 slots instead of 5-7~ish it allows the associations to take a chance on recruiting someone who might not have the speediest start, and more importantly, if the association doesn't work out, you can just jump out, and start a new association and dump a bad leadership behind.


    I am a member of a big association, the 20th we will start our association 4th server.
    I agree with Nerisrath and would add some players stop the game or leave the association because they don't get along anymore, so there are often 3-4 places to open for new members, which you try to integrate asap, on a time where you need all your money.


    I understand you Locomotius Prime, but assiociations are all made by individual players. You met people and decide to play together, so next round you will start with a small group which will grow up by time.


    There is also preinscription limits, you can't start with 5 associations with around 20 players each on the very same area. Atm only 4 assiociations (so around 80 players) can do that, leaving a city with nobody there. It also mean that you can't always go where you whant with who you whant because an other association rserved a city.

    I don't see how any of your points are arguments against my suggestion.

    Now excuse me, I've got a train line to run!

  • Here is the thing, a pre-registered association at any level above level 1, is advantaged for playing the previous round together, this means associations hang on to players they would otherwise kick, and players stay in associations they would otherwise leave. It creates in immobile community with static teams over several gamerounds.

    Wrong, an association on the region I'm playing kicked 2 players who are actives, I don't know why but but this makes what you said wrong. Moreover this is the same thing on non pre-registered associations it is better to keep someone active rather than kicking him out.

    While a fresh-association might take 6 eras to plow hundreds of millions of credits into upgrading their HQ, and all that time NOT getting prestige from the players who join late during all the time up until that point, means they get double-robbed of opportunity to rank up their association.

    I agree with this, things are different since pre-inscription, so a rethink of this would be good.

    Change the system for how many workers an association can have to be dependent on members or something else

    This will just create a more unbalanced situation between associations with very active members and the with people only coming 3-4 a day.

    I don't see how any of your points are arguments against my suggestion.

    Making all association slots open why not, this could help to create new groups, but it won't really give new associations more chances against pre-registered ones. In the same way pre-registered associations, even if they start with 25 members, don't have the same chances.
    Strong associations have strong and experienced players and it comme only with time. New associations won't have that building time and are therefor dissavantaged whatever the rules you put on.

    Bad Wolf - s201 - Tour Eiffel

  • Wrong, an association on the region I'm playing kicked 2 players who are actives, I don't know why but but this makes what you said wrong. Moreover this is the same thing on non pre-registered associations it is better to keep someone active rather than kicking him out.

    I agree with this, things are different since pre-inscription, so a rethink of this would be good.

    This will just create a more unbalanced situation between associations with very active members and the with people only coming 3-4 a day.

    Making all association slots open why not, this could help to create new groups, but it won't really give new associations more chances against pre-registered ones. In the same way pre-registered associations, even if they start with 25 members, don't have the same chances.Strong associations have strong and experienced players and it comme only with time. New associations won't have that building time and are therefor dissavantaged whatever the rules you put on.

    There is a major difference between an association being better than another because the players are in fact better, and if the association is better because it was allowed tos start with game-mechanical superboost that is the current system.


    The entire point I'm trying to argue is 25-slots open from the start associations, which you appear to agree with to some degree..


    While some members might have left or been kicked from your asso in spite of being good/active whatever, this is a more or less rare occasion. If you look at any gameworld, the majority who come in with the pre-registry into an association with more than 15 members are still there by the end of era 1, the majority of those in era 1 are in era 2 and so on. There is no movement, and in the case of bad leaders, you have no real mobile options. 1 sidestepping association from that doesn't make what i wrote wrong, it's an exception to the rule.


    I've recently played on 3 servers where the immobility created issues for different reasons. It's just stupid sitting there with 15 or whatever the number players like donkeys because the system keeps his position important and it costs everyone their surplus to change it.


    For example; let's say you have a good leader, he gets inactive and the next runner up takes over after 7 days, and turns out to be crap. Are you and 22~ or whatever others gonna split up into other associations every man for himself or are you gonna stick it out with a sucky leader? If your objective here is to stick with a team you otherwise like you only have bad and worse options.
    But if 1 of you could just jump out, create a new one and invite everyone at once and be a new 22~ people association in 5 minutes, then more power to you, right?


    Or let's say you begin a new world, you bring 10 of your previous 25 in pre-regged, and another nearby association does the same. You would like to merge, but people aren't going to cough up 40 million each in era 1 are they?
    So while you and your merge-partner associations are sitting there collecting half-prestige in each waiting for era 2 to have the financials to merge, the association that did get 23-25 members across the pre-reg is hauling in the full PP in the same place.
    To me this is idiotic, and serves for no purpose other than to game-mechanically enforce prestige points to be collected in the same places.



    I see all arguments against opening all 25 slots from the start are "oh but it's not that bad it's a little tiny tiny bit mitigated this way", but I haven't seen a single argument for why the current system is good in any way. Does anyone really have an argument for why it's beneficial to the gameplay to make sure new associations are handicapped this way?

    Now excuse me, I've got a train line to run!

  • For example; let's say you have a good leader, he gets inactive and the next runner up takes over after 7 days, and turns out to be crap. Are you and 22~ or whatever others gonna split up into other associations every man for himself or are you gonna stick it out with a sucky leader? If your objective here is to stick with a team you otherwise like you only have bad and worse options.
    But if 1 of you could just jump out, create a new one and invite everyone at once and be a new 22~ people association in 5 minutes, then more power to you, right?


    Or let's say you begin a new world, you bring 10 of your previous 25 in pre-regged, and another nearby association does the same. You would like to merge, but people aren't going to cough up 40 million each in era 1 are they?
    So while you and your merge-partner associations are sitting there collecting half-prestige in each waiting for era 2 to have the financials to merge, the association that did get 23-25 members across the pre-reg is hauling in the full PP in the same place.

    I have to agree with you. We experience an associate association leader that was playing solo but had around 20 people with him who were playing for the region and were stuck because creating a new association would cost too much. This was before pre-inscriptions but illustrate well what you said.


    I think changing this rule worth to be tested. Atm we are at erea 3 end and my restaurant, shoping center, hotel and lab (I got sevral -20% vouchers) are full. This would just be impossible without the money saved by pre-inscriptions and an association with 15 people when we started.

    Bad Wolf - s201 - Tour Eiffel