• I brought this up some time ago with Samisu and it was suggested that a thread was started just for this topic. This is what was written:


    "A few of us are desperately trying to mentor others in our region. We've started on the basics and get pushback in our explanations. For example, we have some pretty seasoned players intent on running direct to over-burden the facility and level it. They swear this is the quickest method. We're telling them that the occupancy rate is only part of the equation - they also need to supply the facility's RGs."


    ...and...GO!

  • I think it will depend on the style of playing of each individual.

    I never will make these slow transports (from one factory to the other, from this other factory to still another etc... from grains to cows, from cows to sausages, from sausages to hamburgers etc ).

    I make direct transports only from era 1 to end game.

    And I invest a lot in the factories from where I am taking goods to transport.

    Any factory I transport from, grows very quickly.

    Yes, the first two or three hours are of patience and I have removed trains from it until recalculation because I will not be there waiting for 10 minutes.

    But I will still prefer this than the slow transports.


    If I am being poor, I reserve about two trains to transport the most profitable transport here is (chosen by the tool `time calculatior` ) for a few hours, always changing it at recalculation, and my money problems are quickly solved.

  • "A few of us are desperately trying to mentor others in our region. We've started on the basics and get pushback in our explanations. For example, we have some pretty seasoned players intent on running direct to over-burden the facility and level it. They swear this is the quickest method. We're telling them that the occupancy rate is only part of the equation - they also need to supply the facility's RGs."


    ...and...GO!

    I have read the entire thread and while I agree that hauling fully integrated will give you more as well as maintain a good, usable industry, I researched this a long time ago (my second round) and found that leveling an industry is based on occupancy and investment. Supply doesnt actually have any direct bearing on it leveling. The number you want for occupancy is 300%, not sure what the investment level needs to be. There have been many changes since then so I cant say for sure this is still true, however, I have seen a fresh, untouched industry level the first hour it was used but only because we got the entire city to haul the new good (Golden/Happy Hour). So we had around 40 people hauling direct with no waiting time and everyone put in 2-3 clicks of investment. Again, this was a long time ago.

    “You must be the change you want to see in the world.”-Mahatma Gandhi

  • Well, a few of us have observed that direct hauling and investing only led to insane WT and the facility did not grow. As soon as we started supplying resources...WT dropped and we saw growth.


    Things do seem to fluctuate though...like there's a random algorithm or something. Some days the facilities seem to grow...and sometimes it seems to take a few days. A bit like "okay, today your growth multiplier is .28, tomorrow .0028.

  • Like I said, things may have changed but also I said supply doesnt "Directly Effect" industry level but yes, hauling direct will absolutely drive wait time up. The one time we managed to level an industry in one hour, I think the wait time following that hour was somewhere around 15-20 minutes

    “You must be the change you want to see in the world.”-Mahatma Gandhi

  • Well, a few of us have observed that direct hauling and investing only led to insane WT and the facility did not grow. As soon as we started supplying resources...WT dropped and we saw growth.


    Things do seem to fluctuate though...like there's a random algorithm or something. Some days the facilities seem to grow...and sometimes it seems to take a few days. A bit like "okay, today your growth multiplier is .28, tomorrow .0028.

    I know cities have that problem. You can have ~99% of the RG's delivered and it not being leveled.

    My Forum Goal:

    To get to 1000 Posts :)

  • I have seen a fresh, untouched industry level the first hour it was used but only because we got the entire city to haul the new good (Golden/Happy Hour). So we had around 40 people hauling direct with no waiting time and everyone put in 2-3 clicks of investment. Again, this was a long time ago.


    We have tried that but nope, ended with a WT of 15+ minutes at the end of golden hour but no growth, even with heavy investments.


    Does industry growth vary depending upon which version of the game, classic. USA or SoE?

  • It might vary. When we succeeded, there were no SOE servers and USA was only on a test server. We did it on Classic and we did have a super high wait time afterwords but we didnt care. We had leveled an industry in an hour and the brand new good was hard green. We leveled the city again that day but never leveled an industry in an hour again. I never said it was easy, just that it was (at one time) possible.

    “You must be the change you want to see in the world.”-Mahatma Gandhi

  • The growth equation :


    If above 50% occupancy : +1% for each 10% of occupancy (=+25% at 300% occupancy) ; if below, -0.5% for 10% of occupancy (= -2.5% for 0% occupancy).

    Investments : +0.4% per click

    Integration : useless for the direct growth of an industry. Only efficient to reduce the wait times of the industry. Tends in general to cause a lower occupancy (because the integration is often longer than running direct), but gives much more money, and friendly wait-times that allow for a flexible strategy (for example : let's finish the up with a 1 hour rush).


    Overall, you need 3 people running direct for the first hour to rush the 300% occupancy. And then you have to find the 75% remaining in investments >>190 investments (and that's a lot).


    >> they are perfectly correct, but you are too. It just depends on the conditions (which industry, where is it located, and so on). I can give you 2 examples for Istanbul : for lamps it's just much quicker to skip the integration (having a 15-tracks integration for a 4-tracks good...), but for glass you must be stupid to not do it (0 extra tracks...)

    Fr-201 Bad Wolf de coeur

    en pause indéterminée - away from the game until next interesting server

  • Hmmm, maybe what we're seeing is not the direct effect of running integrated, but more of a side-effect. You have everyone running integrated so say, a 30sec wait time or better. But, everyone is grinding away at it direct and the WT is over 5 minutes. That seriously reduces transport levels, thus drastically lowers occupancy rates, which if occupancy rates are indeed the driving factor...


    10 people running 10 engines with 10 rail cars. So, 1,000 rail cars at their disposal.

    (60/5)*1000=12,000 tons hauled per hour. 5-min WT from hauling direct.

    (60/.5)*1000=120,000 tons hauled per hour. 30-sec WT via integration.


    Of course, no distance/travel-times were thrown into the equation, but we have a baseline using the above. Also, variables like n hours of direct haul driving WT any higher or facility cool-downs dropping them down into the single-digit-seconds become major players as well.

  • The question is extremely complex and I didn't want to go into too much detail, but yeah you understood the principle. You just tend to under-estimate the travel-time to keep a 30-sec WT (which doesn't happen with 300% occupancy btw, it's rather to 2min with full stocks, and 5-6min with 0 stocks).


    In practice, from what I've seen and done, the optimum is something close to 50% integration and 50% direct, if the integration is done properly, for many "regular" industries (that would leave the stock to be stable at something like 80%).

    Exceptions would be cars for example (never do integration for that good, except in exceptionnally over-populated servers, for example the festival one, or german ones).

    Also, there is quite a huge difference between classic and SoE / USA (due to the warehouses, that reduce the utility of integration, to encourage changing schedules every hour).

    Fr-201 Bad Wolf de coeur

    en pause indéterminée - away from the game until next interesting server

  • I will say that while full integration will in fact level an industry (proven constantly) I also know that if you wish to level industries faster, it's really not that hard, even when it gets up to the higher levels. If you run full integrated until an industry reaches 75% then spend 1 hour where 10+ run direct (levels 2-10) 15-20 above level 10, you should be able to level the industry within that hour, especially with good investment. This is a theory based on numbers, I havent actually tried it. The over all take away is, leveling industry is done through occupancy and investment.

    “You must be the change you want to see in the world.”-Mahatma Gandhi

  • The trick to leveling it without integration and avoiding high waits is the On /Off approach. As many haulers as you have run the good direct and remove themselves before the next calculation. It will put a high utilization on the factory and a high wait the following Calc. Who cares, so long as everyone is out it will see a low wait after it has cooled off that next hour. Supply or don't supply depends on if you need to level the city, run other RGs or if you need cash. It is similar to running goods out of a warehouse. You can drain it to zero tons, if no one uses it the next calc the following it will have a low wait & still no supply. True, if your city is full of sleepy, inactive, grinding set it & forget it types then your only option would be full integration. Happy Hauling.

  • What Cletus said! You will definitely do much better running direct If you have enough people active enough to change schedules each hour. Integrated is much better If people are just going to log in once a day or once every 12 hours and stay on the same good all the time. Since most people are between these 2 extremes, different teams will have different results.

  • What Cletus said! You will definitely do much better running direct If you have enough people active enough to change schedules each hour. Integrated is much better If people are just going to log in once a day or once every 12 hours and stay on the same good all the time. Since most people are between these 2 extremes, different teams will have different results.


    We practice it since one year in SoE as a hole association. Everyone who is online switch between two goods every hour and transport it directly. Everyone who is offline deliver only one good fully intigrated. Works perfecly if nodody do other things and everytime we have the best leveled factories on the server with only one association.

  • Hauling optimally. Not only is this problem complex but also each two factors must be in a balance. Every aspect we add needs to be balanced with the old ones. You have given good strategies with different effects in different situations. Lets start simple.


    I am very happy that Sacrioma brought an equation to the argument. WT is a big factor. How much is having stock? Which brings the question how much stock is consumed per ton product delivered? Then how much stock is consumed when 2 or more goods are integrated?

  • I don't know accurate figures but it seems to me that for every ton of raw product the industry produces 2 tons of finished good. So if there are 2 required goods, half a ton of each = 2 tons of finished product