RN Two games or One?

    I understand that the developers want to create the perfect game to appeal to every kind of player. It is a great and laudable goal, but is it achievable?


    “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. John Lydgate c 1370 -1451


    Have they in fact created two totally different games sharing the same environment and game pieces?


    Over the years the game has moved more and more in favour of free haulers. Don't get me wrong, some are very good and add to the game's tapestry, often actively helping the city builders. Some even join city building associations where they can be really helpful. Unfortunately this is not the case with a distressingly increasing subset of free haulers. There is an element, increasing rapidly, who are systematically destroying the game for the city builders by breaking majorities in the required goods industries over and over again but putting nothing back into game progression.


    When taxed about it the response is along the lines of:- We do it to get the prestige so what. Why should we bother about your city building. Why don't you put more money into industries if you can't make the same money as we do you that is your problem. Something wrong with your association. We can get all the money we need, why can't you. (I have had all of these in replies and more, some too ripe to repeat when I have asked them to "Please Respect our Majorities. "


    This type appears to have absolutely no concept of what goes into developing the city. They only know that the better developed cities give them the best prestige when they take the majority in the industries being used to deliver Required Goods. Frankly, the City Building associations do not need the Free hauling associations. The City Builder's game is to develop the most successful city if they can. The exclusively Prestige Hunting Free Haulers would have no game if there were no City builders working on the cities. They depend on the City Builders but treat the city Builders with utter, unmitigated contempt. The exclusively Prestige Hunting Free Hauler's game is entirely gaining prestige, sadly, in too many cases recently, at any price. Normal Free Haulers don't need them either as they know they need the developing cities and are symbiotic.


    Today I received this from a player who has been playing the game for five or more years, I hope he also sent it to support. (I have replaced some letters with stars as the words used are unrepeatable.)

    "***** *** ****** ****** bottom feeders have sucked the guts of game. Parasite *** attacking industries for prestige. I wont take it. Im done. Good luck."

    (edited by CM)


    It is inevitable, that, if RN do not do something quickly to redress the balance and make city building more attractive to prestige hunters then the city builders will either turn into prestige hunters or, far more likely, they will leave the game altogether. No city builders, no game or a very different game which appeals only to certain types of player. That cannot be what the developers want. It defeats their stated goal:- To appeal to every kind of player!

    The stock answer to this Rhoswen is that they cannot compromise the single players ability to play how they wish.


    What they fail to understand is that they are continuously compromising the team play aspect of the game, which in actual fact also affects the individual play of all corp members that play for a City/Region. So they are contradicting themselves all the way down the line.


    You are right... The game is now biased towards individual Freehaulers/non team players, which discriminates against at least 50% of players on any server.


    How is that a fair and balanced way of running a game?????

    I concur with what has been said here. I have been in a top 10 corporation for several years and the one thing that we get stressed about is players taking majorities on facilities that are being used for hauling RG. It often happens while we're asleep / overnight and results in a significant reduction in tonnage getting to the city resulting in possible drop down the progress table. Its almost like a virus infecting our city and we have to cope with it. That would be fine as a gaming parameter, but what really gets our goat is that we know that a person(s) with no regard for other player's gaming preferences are behind it, which causes a lot of animosity. And as the gentleman implied, you can't talk to them, as their attitude is 'to hell with everybody else' and replies are mainly unpleasant to say the least. So yes, city building is for team players and PP collection for individuals who are really playing as a parasite on the backs of the team players. Games are usually designed for its fun and enjoyment, but PP hunters distract from that. The game should be redesigned to segregate player types so they can coexist happily. I suggest RN design a mod that stops players not in a corporation belonging to a city from investing in their RG facilities.

    The problems described do exist.

    Unfortunately.


    Do you have suggestions on how to solve them?

    Hear Me Roar wrote:

    Do you have suggestions on how to solve them?

    I think that is not that difficult.


    Specificly to the Steam over Europe servers. If you look at the top 5 of a speed server (Towerbridge f.e.) you see that they score a lot of prestige from Transports in upto 50 cities. So what they basicly do is to set 1 train per city hitting all 4 RG and the odd bonus passengertrains on 5 or 10 stop pax routes.

    Another big source is investing in all RG in those cities.. When 2-5 players score more then double on transport or invest prestige compared to no 6-10 in the top 10 of the same server it means there is a big imbalance in the game that is being "exploited"


    When SoE started as a scenario I was able to make top 10 easy with my dedicated team play strategy.. lots of Landmark hauling and city pushes when needed gave me a top 5 ranking on transportprestige easily as no one knew the effect of 1 train per city trick..

    Now I am always between 11-20 individual ranking for the server with that same strategy because a handful of players take advantage of the gaps in the prestige reward logic..

    This effect could simply be solved by killing prestige gathering in other then the own region or significantly reducing prestige that can be gained in other regions.

    The investing prestige can be reduced by not giving prestige for the amount invested but for a combinations of investamount and the Tonnage hauled.


    The object of SoE is very clear Ten regions of 5 cities compete against each other for the win. And other then on American dream or Classic where you can somewhat understand room for Freehauler strategies because in the end every hauler helps the city level faster..
    In SoE it does not make sense to have that freehauler strategy as the dynamic is completely different, you are not allowed to change your region, there is a big prestige bonus for regional winner. But the only way to win the personal ranking is by ignoring all those features

    I do think the Freehaulers strategy can be part of the game but not on every scenario.. It also makes the game as a whole more interesting if various scenario's require completely different strategy. you can even have a "Grand slam" achievement for players who made top 10 in all 3 scenario's

    At present you see a couple of the same names doing the same trick of hauling in all cities with 1 train across all scenario's, there is no real strategy, it is a trick that is repeated on every server just because it gives high prestige..

    Hear Me Roar wrote:

    The problems described do exist.

    Unfortunately.


    Do you have suggestions on how to solve them?

    In my original answer, Hear Me Roar, " make city building more attractive to prestige hunters". How. - some suggestions:-

    • Return consumption to where it belongs, to the consumers so that delivering goods to a city becomes more profitable both in prestige and cash. I can take a train from my home to London to Dover, to Paris to Rome, does that make me a consumer in Rome, or London , Paris or Dover? It does in RN where I am an equal consumer in 5 different locations. my consumption is 5 times the consumption of a one city stay at home.
    • Gain prestige for a facility in direct and geometric proportion to the Required goods delivered not from simply investing. Prestige from Pax hauling would again become appealing. Investing should definitely contribute prestige, but, only in proportion to goods hauled. Invest but haul nothing = zero prestige, or an amount so nominal that it will have no appeal. Make over 50% of the investment and gain 50% in prestige of goods delivered from that facility to your home city for example. I would suggest a more complex table than this. But this would be a start.
    • Give directly proportional, but, simple prestige for delivery of none RG both to city and as supply.I am sure there are many other ways. The goal is, redress the balance by making city building a reasonable project for everyone.
    • Limit City switching to a maximum of once per era.

    I am sure there are more ways and my ideas need tweaking. I am not a developer, just a humble player.


    One thing about the pure prestige hunter; he/she does not care how they get it, they want it and will do what they have to do, so, if they have to work for it they will. Right now, they can just take it and the more ruthless and unpleasant they are the more they can take.


    There are dozens of games out there for pirates of war they do not belong in an economic game. Let them stay, let them play their game, but, make it as hard for them as it is for all the other types of player. Right now it is a pretty inane exercise in snatch and grab. Snatch and grab is easy, the rewards for scavenging should reflect this. The fastest most aggressive snatch and grab artist (scavenger) wins the game no negotiation, no co-operation, no skill, no involvement. Regular free haulers and city builders don't get a look in. This is not a game for everyone to play the way they want to play. It is a game where everyone is forced to either play the freebooters way, suffer really nasty oppression or quit. RN have failed in their mission because they seem to be unable to comprehend this simple fact.


    Decide, RN, is this an economic strategy game or a gorilla warfare game.

    Hear Me Roar wrote:

    Do you have suggestions on how to solve them?

    On the classic scenario, actually it's the income of freehauling passengers that causes the problem. I believe it is difficult to change the income formulas to more fair ones, so it would be easier to :


    1) Create an international server, classic, express, without passengers.


    Additional problems could be reduced by :


    2) Ensure the uniqueness of every account by associating the e-mail with a unique cellphone, as in some social media.

    3) Upon the first login, require a pin sent to the cellphone. Every time the player changes device, generate and send new pin that must be submitted within two minutes.

    4) Reduce the ability to change the avatar name to once per year..

    simple: RN needs to pick a direction.

    Team game?

    or Individual Game?


    Team Game:

    Eliminate or reduce Prestige from factory investments (Cash) to less than 5% of what it is now.

    Increase Prestige gained from deliveries of RGs (City or LandMark)

    ADD prestige bonuses based on integrated hauling of RGs. (Supply Prestige bonus awarded when factories level/Grow)

    ADD prestige bonuses based on overall team tonnages delivered to RGs (City and LM)

    in this way, players who choose not to be on a team, still gain by delivering as part of a city/LM effort.


    Individual Game:

    Eliminate all Prestige for deliveries of any kind.

    All prestige is earned thru factory investing.

    This is what these players do anyways, only hauling goods that fill their banks fastest.


    Pick a direction. trying to have both is no longer working.

    Dοc Hοlliday wrote:

    2) Ensure the uniqueness of every account by associating the e-mail with a unique cellphone, as in some social media.

    Only one tiny problem with this one suggestion: What about those who actually do not own and have never owned a cellphone? And conversely those who own more than one cellphone. (I am housebound and have no use for a cellphone even if I could actually, physically, use one.)


    This suggestion eliminates ordinary players who use a PC and still allows the determined multi account player to carry on.

    TrainMaster Hemi wrote:

    i rest my case, nearly 3 weeks and zero reaction from Travian.

    Don't, this is a very actual issue. Most players feel the same. This is a week spot from Travian. They don't recognize the difference between harrasement and bullying and fair gameplay.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -:engine1::engine1::engine1: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    If a turtle doesn’t have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

    re-post, as i'm getting tired of Travian ignoring posts in these international forums.

    if WE can use translators to read the GERMAN forums. THEY should be using translators to read AND RESPOND TO OURS as well.

    ♏︎ Naike wrote:

    Don't, this is a very actual issue. Most players feel the same. This is a week spot from Travian. They don't recognize the difference between harrasement and bullying and fair gameplay.

    they actually REMOVED a section of the game rules relating to "interfering with enjoyable gameplay" a while back, i wish i'd saved a copy of that rule set before it got altered.