Plea to include an "unsportsmanlike behavior" in the Game Rules

  • Hello,


    I know I've said this in some other thread but I really want to put it out here, separately and more easy to discuss. Granted, it's not really a petition but if I were to start one, in the few servers that I play in, I expect it to receive a positive feedback. Although I consider the Game Rules to be somehow thin, not having an unsportsmanlike behavior is really a disadvantage, considering that:


    1. A round can have a bit over 3 months of activity, and such behavior can completely ruin the overall players' state of mind.

    2. Without an in-game consequence, the perpetrator can keep engaging in such behaviors out of spite, fun or for whatever immoral reason.

    3. Some players use real money and/or put in intensive effort in climbing the player rankings, and such behavior can render their efforts useless.


    And by unsportsmanlike behavior I mean, for example (but not limited to):


    a) deliberately, and repeatedly, ruining the industry wait time during the end game;

    b) deliberately, and repeatedly, taking industry majorities;

    c) deliberately starting a round in era 6 and connecting to a megacity just for some quick career points, without actually contributing in the end game.


    I've purposely specified that the action needs to be either deliberate and/or in conjuction with repeated. Of course, this doesn't mean a thing if someone gets falsely or mistakenly reported, it's for the support team to decide if his actions are indeed sanctionable, as it currently is anyway in regards to other game rule violations.


    Now, I know that the game designers don't want to rule out the economical and political battles between the associations out of the game, and that is fine. If members from Association A decide to sabotage a rival city, that's alright, since it means that the Association A now has less hauling power in their city. I'm talking about rogue players, or one-man association players, who commit such acts of sabotage without any obvious motivation. These rogue players take the fun out of the game and ultimately may determine other players to quit playing the game altogether.


    There is nothing worse than losing a 3-months round JUST because 2-3 players that NEVER helped level the city and NEVER had any arguments with the players that leveled the city, suddenly decided to ruin THE MOST DIFFICULT industries to close.


    Lastly, here is a list of other well known multiplayer games that have some sort of unsportsmanlike behavior, whether they call it bad, improper, negative or misbehavior:



    Cheers,

    Mihai

  • For many players, this war for the industries makes the game interesting.

    That is why this must continue to exist. And players should not be penalized for investing.


    The change must be in the mechanics of the game. Mechanics should not allow for such behavior!


    The majority is the cause of many conflicts in the game.

    I suggest having servers / scenarios with special rules in the industries.

    Where the majority cannot be broken. The waiting time depends only on the investment of the player and the team.

  • just stop giving prestige for investing and one problem is almost solved. Change this prestige to the best integration haulers at an industry. So will also the integration balanced because people can earn prestige for it and free haulers for prestige are usefull than.

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    If a turtle doesn’t have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

  • Both of you have picked the least disturbing aspect of what I've wrote, and don't get me wrong, it's still disturbing. But with a strong association and disciplined members you can take back broken/taken industries as well as manage to circumvent free haulers who run direct.


    My real motivation in making this plea is to stop people from ruining the end game, since it completely frustrates me, and a lot of my in game friends, to know that we struggled 3 months and 3-4 players, who I don't even know about, ruin the industry wait times.


    Or, like we're already experiencing now, I see a lot of new players starting in era 6, connecting to our end game city without the possibility to contribute with anything, except consumption.


    How's that for fair and fun?

  • at the servers I play we have less problems during the endgames, we encounter lots of problems caused by the invest prestige farmers. That is my biggest frustration of the game.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -:engine1::engine1::engine1: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    If a turtle doesn’t have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

  • at the servers I play we have less problems during the endgames, we encounter lots of problems caused by the invest prestige farmers. That is my biggest frustration of the game.

    I can understand that, I've been a prestige farmer myself, often taking 1st investor spot. But like I said, I agree and see this as a problem, more so for small teams who cannot put 2-3 clicks everytime a site levels. For big teams this is not an issue, it's a small inconvenience.


    But the two issues cannot be compared, for the investments issue you have a solution: be more active and encourage association members to invest in the site they are using, for the latter, ruining the end game sites, you don't really have a solution.

  • /Mihai

    You can clearly see that if there is no majority in the industries. All the problems you describe will disappear.

    The solution to such problems must be to change the mechanics of the game.

    So it must be something like that.

  • It's a competition, different cities competing with each other and different players competing for different goals, individual rankings etc. Without this competition, there is no game. I don't want to play a game for 3 months just to see who can haul the most goods during the final day. Sabotage, connections, prestige hunters, industry bombing make the competition much more interesting and it's fun. It is is only frustrating if you let it be frustrating, instead of looking for ways to avoid it or counter the 'attacks'. It's all part of the game is what I'm saying, expect it, learn, get better, fight harder for the win and you will enjoy it more. Otherwise, maybe solitaire is a better game for you?


    Don't get me wrong, I understand some of the frustration with the 'mechanics'. The counting of all 'active' connections to a city in determining the quota, is a silly, useless and mind boggingly stupid idea. Thousands of players have posted that the real number of active haulers in a city should be counted instead of any and all 'connections' including multi's, new level 1 players, players who are connected but haul in other cities or inactive but 'still counted as 'on-line' accounts. The current rules are a loophole for cheaters and that does completely destroy the fair competition element that RN is trying but failing to achieve.


    In short, majorities, investing for prestige etc, are all just parts of the game that make it more interesting to most players. But the new quota rules are a total failure, even after much debate, ideas and player input beforehand. Yet again, RN just ignores that input and does whatever it thinks is best for them and they get it wrong every time, unfortunately. I therefore don't really expect anything to change, anytime soon.

    If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much!

  • A test of a new fair system for determining active players has just started on the PTR server.

  • /Mihai

    You can clearly see that if there is no majority in the industries. All the problems you describe will disappear.

    The solution to such problems must be to change the mechanics of the game.

    So it must be something like that.

    No it's not, because it doesn't fix the wait time issues in the end game. Furthermore I don't even want to address the majority issue and come up with ways to improve, the system is alright as it is! I am heavily against changing the system in order to make less room for people to behave improper, that is not the way! We shouldn't build fences just because there are thieves, we need to adress the issue with people being thieves in the first place. Hence I would sanction the felony, not find ways of making it harder. It's way more elegant and logical than to mess around with the majority system, which is fine as it is.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by /Mihai ().

  • It's a competition, different cities competing with each other and different players competing for different goals, individual rankings etc. Without this competition, there is no game. I don't want to play a game for 3 months just to see who can haul the most goods during the final day. Sabotage, connections, prestige hunters, industry bombing make the competition much more interesting and it's fun. It is is only frustrating if you let it be frustrating, instead of looking for ways to avoid it or counter the 'attacks'. It's all part of the game is what I'm saying, expect it, learn, get better, fight harder for the win and you will enjoy it more. Otherwise, maybe solitaire is a better game for you?


    Don't get me wrong, I understand some of the frustration with the 'mechanics'. The counting of all 'active' connections to a city in determining the quota, is a silly, useless and mind boggingly stupid idea. Thousands of players have posted that the real number of active haulers in a city should be counted instead of any and all 'connections' including multi's, new level 1 players, players who are connected but haul in other cities or inactive but 'still counted as 'on-line' accounts. The current rules are a loophole for cheaters and that does completely destroy the fair competition element that RN is trying but failing to achieve.


    In short, majorities, investing for prestige etc, are all just parts of the game that make it more interesting to most players. But the new quota rules are a total failure, even after much debate, ideas and player input beforehand. Yet again, RN just ignores that input and does whatever it thinks is best for them and they get it wrong every time, unfortunately. I therefore don't really expect anything to change, anytime soon.

    If I were 15 years younger I would have been offended, but you make a fair point, but I suspect you're just saying what I want to hear, not what you really would think, or feel, if you were in my spot.


    To reiterate, let's say we play a East vs West scenario, or blue vs red, I don't know the real name since I've only played it for one round. Of course if there are associations that want to sabotage the wait times during the end game it's fine, it's not nice, but it's fine. They just play dirty, and the opposition can play the same, if they so chose.


    But let's say we're playing the classic scenario which we're all familiar. You have your associations playing the end game in different cities, but once it starts you see some one-man association players or some rogue players from small associations from smaller cities that just ruin your wait times without any obvious reason. Or so it would seem, right? Having played at least 5 rounds, those accounts can't be considered newbies, they obviously know how the game is played, yet they chose to sabotage a city. Why? I can only suspect. Maybe they're fake accounts of other players, or maybe they're deranged, or maybe they just do it because it's fun to see someone struggle, get frustrated, get mad, post things, quit the game.


    Isn't this behavior which I've just described unsportsmanlike? Doesn't that type of behavior promote negativity within the game? What are the gains of allowing such players to embark on such behaviors? I don't see none. Real Nation is allowing a MINORITY to exist, thus frustrating a MAJORITY.


    Stop talking about investment wars, or breaking majorities by prestige farmers, or industry bombing or what is called, by rival associations, because that's not the topic. The topic is ONE STAR player that logs in once a day and ruins the work of 100+ players for over 3 months. That's what I'm talking about.

  • Ok, I understand that part, and I agree with it. It is exactly what I was saying regarding 'multi' accounts easily created by competitors to wreak havoc on your city. I'm not saying it because I think it's what you want to hear, I too have a large disdain for cheaters. And RN says they do plenty to get rid of them, but they don't.


    This is the real problem, not the majority breakage or other 'bad behaviour'.

    All you need to do is report those accounts as multi's and hope that they get deleted

    (although I don't give it much chance and the damage is already done, I understand that too).

    But setting rules for 'unsportsmanlike conduct' is just not going to work, it's way too subjective, vague and also too easy to abuse. I already get punished every day just because other players report me over nothing, because they are mad about investments or whatever, lol.


    RN needs to more strictly enforce the already existing multi accounting rule, that's all.

    Then, all your worries will go away.

    And if a real level 1 noobie player is actually causing you damage ... well, then .... good for him or her! :)

    If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much!

  • a) deliberately, and repeatedly, ruining the industry wait time during the end game;

    b) deliberately, and repeatedly, taking industry majorities;

    c) deliberately starting a round in era 6 and connecting to a megacity just for some quick career points, without actually contributing in the end game.

    This is a horrible idea and if anything it shows that you have unsportsmanlike behavior based on the three items you listed. Allow me to elaborate.


    a) Every single city has people that haul whatever they want to wherever they want for EG. This does not cause you to lose the game because all nine other cities are faced with the same problem. And here is the catch, not every player in RN is playing the same game you are. Just like in life, there are people with different goals. Perhaps someone is setting their trains to ever single active good so that they can get a small portion of the prestige points which translates to gold at the end of the game. Deal with it, other cities are.


    b) You had best believe I do this one! You don't own any industry out there. If you and I are hauling for two different cities and we are competing for the same good, that industry belongs to whomever is willing to pay the most amount of money for it. Just like in real life, you can't always have what you want and sometimes the other guy has more money or is willing to waste more money than you are. Oh, and if you are in a corporation that another corporation is trying to run out of town, well there you go again. Different people play for different reasons and some of those players you don't are big time spenders as well.


    c) Oh, I do this one as well. How this can be looked at as unsportsmanlike conduct is beyond me. Oh, and here is another one for you while you are at it. On most of the servers I play on I connect to almost all the EG cities and haul to none of them until it is clear that the game will not last another daily reset. During that time I am hauling to every one of the cities people just abandoned and making a lot more prestige points than the EG players are!


    You want my observation? Without knowing who you are or what server you play on, I can tell that you have paid money for the game, and still lost the game. If you did not win, it is not because someone cheated you out in the endgame, it is because you got out played. Learn from it and move on. Or quit. But complaining and trying to take away completion is the single best way to kill the game in entirety.

  • I suggest having servers / scenarios with special rules in the industries.

    Where the majority cannot be broken. The waiting time depends only on the investment of the player and the team.

    Then what you are suggesting is that there is no team majority at all only individual investments. That would be an interesting concept.

  • just stop giving prestige for investing and one problem is almost solved. Change this prestige to the best integration haulers at an industry. So will also the integration balanced because people can earn prestige for it and free haulers for prestige are usefull than.

    You are doing the same thing that Mihai is doing, attempting to have the game changed to fit your style of play. I for one almost never haul integrated. When online I will hit up a single factory for an hour and then change to a new RG at reset. I get more prestige, you get more money. That is fair. If as a corporation you don't approve of that, you can kick me out. If I join a free hauling corporation, you can always rival that corporation. If I run solo with no corporation, well you just have to deal with it but again, I lose other benefits by choosing whatever style of play for that game. Why fix what isn't broken?

  • There are ten end game cities in every game. When you log onto one of those maps in era 6, you have no idea what city, out of 50, is going to be an EG city and what city will not be an EG city. Furthermore, you have no idea which one of the ten EG cities will win. That means all ten EG cities are facing the same problem as your EG city. New people have logged into the game and connected to your city.


    Oh, and let's forget about the new people because, let's be frank here. Most people who show up in era 6 and connect stop playing after EG starts are other than tonnage required for your city don't affect your EG at all. So what about all those other players you have played with who consistently busted happy hour because they just wanted to get there's? They are still going to play in your EG! I think the best solution for you and others who don't like competition is to have a new server where you can haul goods all over the place, but when EG comes to an end, everyone ends with 1 million prestige points and everyone gets a round win!

  • at the servers I play we have less problems during the endgames, we encounter lots of problems caused by the invest prestige farmers. That is my biggest frustration of the game.

    A prestige farmer is probably dumping a load of cash into a factory just before it levels up. If you don't care about prestige then that does not affect you at all. Your investment is dramatically reduced upon level up and if you don't dump more money into the facility, then someone like me will and I will start hauling direct to the city to run up prestige that way. The simple solution, invest in the facilities.

  • Now you are talking about a different issue. It sounds to me that you are talking about fake accounts, or clone accounts of players, or players friends who are attempting to make it hard for one EG city win and give the advantage to another EG city. Two things, that is cheating and not unsportsmanlike competition. Accounts like that should be banned from the game, IF they can prove it is an alternate account. The second thing is that what you described happens to every EG city. I know because I usually connect to 5-8 EG cities per game and I read the chats on all of them. They all complain about "saboteurs". Hate to say it, but that's just part of the game.

  • With all due respect, you don't really understand what a "sportsmanlike" behavior is in the first place. If I were to be idealistic, sabotage should be sanctioned, that's what sportsmanlike means: playing fair, not playing to sabotage game. Meaning that, I as a chair make my alliances with other teams, struggle 3 months, push a city to the endgame and play to our best, without any disruptions. That is what a FAIR competition means. I actually have this rule in my team, whoever messes up with other endgame cities will get dismissed from the corporation. And most people agree with me, not most people from my association, but most players in general. The ones that don't agree with this are enrolled in such activies, and therefore want to stay enrolled not be sanctioned.


    BUT, I agree, allowing rival corporations to sabotage makes the game more realistic, and somewhat challenging. That is why I'm fine with it, I definitely won't do such things but if other corporations want to, then it's clear that we won't be making any alliances, like ever. Now onto what you've wrote, and I'll try to be short:


    a) the reality is that very few cities have people that haul what they want, actually, there are very few people that actually haul what they want in the first place; free haulers AREN'T interested in sabotaging other cities, they're interested in prestige points, therefore they will be hauling to a lot of endgame cities BUT will actually CLOSE the goods NOT ruin them.


    b) yes, of course, no one OWNS industries or cities, we all use them, but you should use your main city sites, since they are closer, and not use other sites which may belong to other cities; alas, if we're talking about SHARED sites, then yes, we both should use it but there are better ways to come to an agreement rather than funneling huge amounts of money (ex: temporary ownership, association friendly status, hauling for your city and in return you haul for ours, etc). War is not the way and should be the last resort.


    c) it shouldn't, I agree, but when YOUR actions impact OUR game quality, then it's a problem; if it weren't for active members to get counted towards consumption, tonnage quota, then it wouldn't really be a problem. You, having your way, impacts how others have their way. Lastly, if your plan is to haul to the abandoned cities, then by all means, target all of them, just stay out of the EG ones since you've just said you're making more prestige by hauling to other cities.


    I have a lot of experience in playing this game, as an individual player and as a chair. Finished 2nd in individual rankings and for quite some rounds my association is ranked 1st, while winning more EGs than I remember. So no, I don't get outplayed, I just get upset of these shenanigans that should be sanctioned, not allowed.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by /Mihai ().

  • There are ten end game cities in every game. When you log onto one of those maps in era 6, you have no idea what city, out of 50, is going to be an EG city and what city will not be an EG city. Furthermore, you have no idea which one of the ten EG cities will win. That means all ten EG cities are facing the same problem as your EG city. New people have logged into the game and connected to your city.


    Oh, and let's forget about the new people because, let's be frank here. Most people who show up in era 6 and connect stop playing after EG starts are other than tonnage required for your city don't affect your EG at all. So what about all those other players you have played with who consistently busted happy hour because they just wanted to get there's? They are still going to play in your EG! I think the best solution for you and others who don't like competition is to have a new server where you can haul goods all over the place, but when EG comes to an end, everyone ends with 1 million prestige points and everyone gets a round win!

    The issue wasn't with players that are connected to my EG city but haul for another, that's fine, you can think of them in terms of PAX haulers. I am talking about the players that start the round in era 6 and connect to your city without having enough tracks, or railcars, or good trains, or time in general to even contribute. They make more harm than good, by a huge margin. And no, people starting in era 6 WILL DEFINITELY stay for the EG, that's what their goal is.


    Players that busted the GHs throughout the round will get private messages from me and will be taught how to benefit more, since him starting the GH for only 15 minutes is as bad for him as for everybody. So at least they get a chance to learn and understand. These players ARE part of the game and if you don't get along then you don't get along, it's an assumed risk. But when it comes to players starting in era 6 just to mess around, how can I deal with those? I can't even prepare for those. It's just A BAD GAME DESIGN FEATURE that should be removed.

    A prestige farmer is probably dumping a load of cash into a factory just before it levels up. If you don't care about prestige then that does not affect you at all. Your investment is dramatically reduced upon level up and if you don't dump more money into the facility, then someone like me will and I will start hauling direct to the city to run up prestige that way. The simple solution, invest in the facilities.

    You are being right and wrong in the same time. Allow me to explain: of course a prestige farmer will haul ONLY direct, otherwise they won't be efficient, but that's not a problem, they'll haul direct for almost an hour and move on. Honestly this actually HELPS the city since it gives a boost to the site's level AND to the RG stock.


    But you saying that the investment doesn't affect a player who isn't into prestige it's incorrect. Let's say you are from Australia and playing on an international server, you obviously are more active when most europeans are not. Your huge investment that either breaks or takes majority will affect the offline haulers since they will make less money overall.


    When I was playing as a prestige farmer I'd carefully invest only up to the point of NOT breaking majority.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by /Mihai ().