Plea to include an "unsportsmanlike behavior" in the Game Rules

  • I'm talking about rogue players, or one-man association players, who commit such acts of sabotage without any obvious motivation.

    I disagree a little bit on this statement: I think if the motiviation is not obvious, the usual rule of "innocent until proven guilty" applies. In my personal opinion, it's not about about "no obvious motivation", but "obvious motivation to simply being a jerk".
    Maybe that is what you meant, maybe not. But in my opinion a player should not be punished just because his intention is not clear (because that also applies to players who just don't know better), but he should only be punished if his intention is clearly "evil" and there is proof for it.

    Sabotage, connections, prestige hunters, industry bombing make the competition much more interesting and it's fun.

    I agree on that. Rail Nation in general is an extremely cooperative game and quite peaceful, given that you can't really lose anything you earned and any competition is more like a race about who does something best, not about taking something away.
    So to keep things interesting, a certain threshold of gameplay-induced friction is a good thing in my opinion. The "salt in the soup", so to speak.
    This only gets too much once players use these mechanics for the sole purpose of ruining the fun for others.
    Being upset about some things others are doing is part of a competitive game, which Rail Nation still is.
    However, doing something ONLY to upset others is not okay.
    Distinguishing between the two is not always easy though :/

    About the topic at hand:
    The game rules acutally will soon be updated and will include a general rule about fair play that covers...well, pretty much every intentional harmful behavior that is not covered by other rules.
    We will also be introducing account bans and increase our efforts concerning multis.
    Will this solve all problems? Definitely not. No rule and no punishment in the world can fully prevent harmful behavior, some people simply do it anyway. Punishments are not really that effective at preventing anything.
    But it will help.


  • That is amazing, thank you for coming forward and for the work you will be doing in making the Game Rules more comprehensive. It will surely help, I sincerely think so.


    Looking forward :)

  • I have complained to support about these issues (specifically rogue players/corps who only exists to annoy and slow down/hurt other players or corporations) and their answer has always been: "as long as they play within the game rules, they are fine"... Well, CHANGE THE RULES!
    I totally agree either the corporations themselves need a way to defend against these actions, or the game need to introduce new rules to tone down this behavior.
    I know many players who have quit the game just because of this. Myself, I stopped playing for years because of my frustration with this matter.

  • c) deliberately starting a round in era 6 and connecting to a megacity just for some quick career points, without actually contributing in the end game.

    Why does the game allow new players into a round in era 5 or 6? I would even go as far as to say after the start of era 4 no new players should be allowed to start. The game is designed to be 6 eras, so players should have to play at least half, IMHO.

  • Why does the game allow new players into a round in era 5 or 6? I would even go as far as to say after the start of era 4 no new players should be allowed to start. The game is designed to be 6 eras, so players should have to play at least half, IMHO.

    - A player can search/join a team for the next round.

    - Players can assemble a team for the next round

    - A player can participate in career tourism

    - just for fun

    ...

  • BUT, I agree, allowing rival corporations to sabotage makes the game more realistic, and somewhat challenging. That is why I'm fine with it, I definitely won't do such things but if other corporations want to, then it's clear that we won't be making any alliances, like ever. Now onto what you've wrote, and I'll try to be short:

    Mihai, this is where you and I mostly disagree. Far too many players have a feeling that other teams or corporations are sabotaging their cities. This comes up on just about ever EG in multiple cities. I for one doubt that most of the players are sabotaging and EG and would bet they are simply collecting prestige and just don't don't care about who is winning an EG or how they are affecting wait times. That is where strategy comes into play. If you see that someone is attempting to lock up a higher ranking then you can either ignore that good for last or when they are offline, close the good out and let them haul an old good.


    The point is, if you are winning EG all the time then nobody is sabotaging your game. Just go with flow, roll with the punches. RN life is much like RL.

  • Players that busted the GHs throughout the round will get private messages from me and will be taught how to benefit more, since him starting the GH for only 15 minutes is as bad for him as for everybody. So at least they get a chance to learn and understand. These players ARE part of the game and if you don't get along then you don't get along, it's an assumed risk. But when it comes to players starting in era 6 just to mess around, how can I deal with those? I can't even prepare for those. It's just A BAD GAME DESIGN FEATURE that should be removed.

    Being able to start in the last round is a good feature that should not be removed. I have found new maps (American Dream and EU) by joining in the last round to see if I would like it. From doing so I have servers and teams on those servers that I continue to play with to this day. The simple reality is that RN is in this game to make money. If they incorporate your changes they will run off more players than they would please.

  • You are being right and wrong in the same time. Allow me to explain: of course a prestige farmer will haul ONLY direct, otherwise they won't be efficient, but that's not a problem, they'll haul direct for almost an hour and move on. Honestly this actually HELPS the city since it gives a boost to the site's level AND to the RG stock.


    But you saying that the investment doesn't affect a player who isn't into prestige it's incorrect. Let's say you are from Australia and playing on an international server, you obviously are more active when most europeans are not. Your huge investment that either breaks or takes majority will affect the offline haulers since they will make less money overall.


    When I was playing as a prestige farmer I'd carefully invest only up to the point of NOT breaking majority.

    You have completely missed my point about a prestige farmer. First of all, there are admittedly two types. One is the hauling direct and moving on type and the other is the invest to win type. For the invest to win type, they are not going around breaking majorities for the sake of breaking majorities. There are only two types of players who do that. A player or team with a bone to pick against someone or some team meaning you have an investment war going on (that is a good thing not a bad thing) or you have an inexperienced or young player who's primary goal is to see their flag all over the map.


    The investing prestige farmer is neither of these. This is the guy who swoops in half an hour to half a minute before a factory levels up and takes the top investor spot regardless of who's majority they break. There is no way that RN is going to do anything to stop these players because nine out of ten times they are credit card players. You remove the CC players and the rest of us have no game to play. Furthermore, this tactic doesn't affect you unless you were banking on that top prestige spot or are offline and can't invest. However, if you are offline and can't invest and I can take majority of a factory with say 500k, you better believe I am going to haul the snot out of that factory for an hour so it didn't matter that the investment prestige hunter broke the majority because I sure as heck will at that stage. Oh, and when you PM me to explain why that isn't nice, I will reply with four words. Invest in your facilities. Far to many people think this is a gentleman's game and that you can call dibs on a factory, minimally invest, and use your money to upgrade your station or lay tracks.

  • I have complained to support about these issues (specifically rogue players/corps who only exists to annoy and slow down/hurt other players or corporations) and their answer has always been: "as long as they play within the game rules, they are fine"... Well, CHANGE THE RULES!
    I totally agree either the corporations themselves need a way to defend against these actions, or the game need to introduce new rules to tone down this behavior.
    I know many players who have quit the game just because of this. Myself, I stopped playing for years because of my frustration with this matter.

    Yes, but what rules do you want changed? That's where the problem lies. If you want to talk about someone cheating with multi accounts, or multiple people on the same account then by all means, go after them. if you want to talk about someone abusing another with language or intentional harassment, not competition but harassment, then by all means, go after them. But if you are just complaining that you don't like they way someone else played then grow up! A game where everyone is "nice" is not a fun game at all. A game without stress is not a game worth playing. A game without adversity is a boring game.

  • - A player can search/join a team for the next round.

    - Players can assemble a team for the next round

    - A player can participate in career tourism

    - just for fun

    ...

    Funny, I just added a post about how I found three of my favorite teams to play with by joining a random game in round six. Heck, I am playing a game in Crankshaft right now that I didn't even want to start but was on the phone logging in one day when I first woke up and clicked the wrong button. So there I am with a game I can't undo so I might as well try to do something with it. Found out that the next city over looks like a good contender for EG, connected to that city. Then decided to attempt to find a corporation in that city, turned out the top corp in on the server plays in that corporation. Applied, the president of the corp said he would be happy to take me in for the next round but not the current one. Let him know I usually only play one, or in the case of Master's, two servers at a time but that I would come back for a back to back round with him. He still didn't want me to join this round so I found another corporation instead from the same city and also in the top ten. Turns out these guys are pretty awesome. Since joining the corporation I have dumped some money into helping lvl up the HQ, for buying some workers, and oh btw, passed off two RN bonus codes to the rest of the team. All from an era six entry. Now these guys have not asked me to come back next round so I don't intend to. However, when Master's is done I might just circle back to Crankshaft where I have about 600 gold saved up from past era six entries. (BTW building gold to 1k is another reason I do era 6 entries.)


    All this to say that I might have found a new server to play on simply from as Hear Me Roar says, "career tourism."

  • You have completely missed my point about a prestige farmer. First of all, there are admittedly two types. One is the hauling direct and moving on type and the other is the invest to win type. For the invest to win type, they are not going around breaking majorities for the sake of breaking majorities. There are only two types of players who do that. A player or team with a bone to pick against someone or some team meaning you have an investment war going on (that is a good thing not a bad thing) or you have an inexperienced or young player who's primary goal is to see their flag all over the map.


    The investing prestige farmer is neither of these. This is the guy who swoops in half an hour to half a minute before a factory levels up and takes the top investor spot regardless of who's majority they break. There is no way that RN is going to do anything to stop these players because nine out of ten times they are credit card players. You remove the CC players and the rest of us have no game to play. Furthermore, this tactic doesn't affect you unless you were banking on that top prestige spot or are offline and can't invest. However, if you are offline and can't invest and I can take majority of a factory with say 500k, you better believe I am going to haul the snot out of that factory for an hour so it didn't matter that the investment prestige hunter broke the majority because I sure as heck will at that stage. Oh, and when you PM me to explain why that isn't nice, I will reply with four words. Invest in your facilities. Far to many people think this is a gentleman's game and that you can call dibs on a factory, minimally invest, and use your money to upgrade your station or lay tracks.

    I don't want to sound like a prick but I've looked you up on Masters 3 server and I saw that your best solo rank was 7, out of over 50 game rounds.


    I have finished 2nd and could easily won a round if I were to push again, but never acted so selfish with majorities nor have I expressed myself like you just did.


    So maybe you can reflect on this. If I was able to play better than you, and still be a nice player all around, then maybe, just maybe, your play style is wrong and can improve, on a performance level as well as on a behavior level.


    Cheers!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by /Mihai ().

  • Just to clarify things a bit, I have played about 10 rounds and jump into era 6 for about 40 rounds ;)

  • Just my two cents... ranking does not give an indication of a persons ability to play the game. eg someone playing 50 games and reaching #7 does not make them a lesser player then someone who has reached #1 multiple times.

    Patience is a virtue which is a work in progress.;)

  • Just my two cents... ranking does not give an indication of a persons ability to play the game. eg someone playing 50 games and reaching #7 does not make them a lesser player then someone who has reached #1 multiple times.

    Agreed. Some of the best players I know only have two stars. Different people have different goals.

  • well, he probably just want to question Jali on if he really knows that much about prestige players as he shows....

    Which is fair enough until you dig a bit deeper and realize that there is no difference between 2-10, all players receive the same CE points. Then when you add in the fact that I pointed out that I jump into era 6 and attempt to connect to the winning EG city pointing out that I have played some 50 games doesn't really amount to much. Lastly, when you state that we are playing in the same server and are attempting to show you are a better player, it helps to at least be competitive with the individual you are comparing yourself to.

  • <sarcasm>


    I just started playing chess and am not able to do very well as the opponents keep killing my pieces, this is unsportsmanlike. Rather than learn to anticipate opponents moves and learn to play chess better, I have decided to start a petition to change the rules for the game. Opposing players doing things I don't like shall be declared unsportsmanlike and . . . I WIN!!!


    </sarcasm>


    In life and in the game, you can't control other people. But you can 100% control you and your responses to other players and teams and cities. There are absolutely some RN rules that I don't personally like. And there are also people that have come here to complain about the strategy my former corp used (smaller corp that reformed to get workers) and tried to get us banned for that cause they didn't like it. Do well and someone will always complain. So. . . Play the way you enjoy the game, you are unlikely going to change or control other people who have different goals than you do. RN has its errors, but the tension and conflict between different goals in a competitive game is brilliant.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Triarius ().

  • ....

    I have finished 2nd and could easily won a round if I were to push again, but never acted so selfish with majorities nor have I expressed myself like you just did.

    ...

    How many of those were on a server against the Dogs?


    I have scored 850K prestige and placed 35th (it took 1.5 million to crack 10th that round)


    One thing I know for sure, anytime a player says "I could have if I wanted", it means they never have. When you start whipping it out, you should make sure you've got the goods before you start.


    So how many people reading your post thought... "gosh he is so much better". And how many thought... "dude just bragged about a knife to a gun fight"

  • LOL I have played several rounds with the dogs and had over 1.5 million prestige points on the rounds and that 7th place finish WASN"T with the dogs! In fact, I think that 7th place was with Red Rover before I started playing with the dogs.


    Oh, and that does bring up an interesting point that I was letting lay. Every server is different. Some are strong servers, some are weak servers. One reason I jump into era six on servers is to find weak servers. While playing with the Dogs, we may have gone to weak server that we found from era 6 hopping ;)

  • Can we please come back to the original topic instead of discussing who is "best"?

    Rail Nation is a game that supports multiple game goals and play styles, so there is no "correct" way to play. And even if there were, the individual skill of a player does not improve the quality of his arguments in a discussion, so there is no value in discussing about that either way.